Wrestling vs Jiu Jitsu – Jocko Willink

Wrestling vs Jiu Jitsu – Jocko Willink

okay this is part question part opinion
in podcast 13 you stated effectively not explicitly that jiu-jitsu is the martial
art that takes the most time to become proficient I disagree and here’s why as
a wrestler I’ve been able to pick up jiu-jitsu in a matter of about two
months to the point where I can submit a blue belt here and there and mostly
control purple belt possibly there is white skill ranged along belts which I
only roll with lower level players I might just be a bad teacher but I’ve not
I’ve not had as much success teaching jiu-jitsu guys to wrestle after the same
amount of time they’re after the same amount of time there may be a low high
high school wrestling level I found it extremely difficult to teach new
disciplines to shoot penetrate with their hips or effectively use their hips
to defend us or scramble possibly my sample size is too small to form an
accurate opinion but I’m curious of your thoughts on the topic thanks love
listening you learned so yeah I guess when I said that I should have said
grappling in general which is definitely harder to achieve a basic level of
competence in rather than striking now don’t get me wrong you take a skilled
boxer they will destroy an unskilled boxer you take a skilled muy Thai guy
they will destroy an unskilled muy Thai guy do
you’ve changed good more Thai people before right the first person that I
ever did that with that was a skilled muy Thai legit skilled Muay Thai it was
like black Bell versus white belt right yeah I would think about throwing a kick
at him and he would check it right and then he would throw a kick at me before
I even knew what was happening right there that much better they can see your
hips they move it’s the same same thing with boxing if you go against a good
boxer they’ll Jack you up in that sport right in that sport you will get works
so now that being said a good wrestler is a good grappler you are a good
grappler and that’s why you’re able to pick up jujitsu very quickly because
rest is grappling which is jiu-jitsu there
are there differences yes there absolutely are differences but it’s like
longboard surfing and short board surfing if you’re or baseball and
softball if you played baseball in college when you get out on the the the
office softball team you’re a killer that’s the way it is not it’s cuz you
played soft but you played baseball you didn’t play technically softball it’s
the same thing with with wrestling and as far as the fact that it doesn’t take
long to learn if you’re a high level wrestler to learn jujitsu yes absolutely
you’ll learn it very quickly look at the history of the UFC Dan Severn Mark
Coleman Kevin Randleman Randy Koecher Tito all those high-level Russell’s and
that’s the history because guess what high level wrestlers are there right now
– John Jones DC it’s it’s wrestlers it’s wrestlers
and wrestlers now are there other guys that come in and fill it but the the the
I would say the majority base is wrestling you know so now you also have
to look at speaking of history you have to look at the early ufc’s or you go to
any gym in the fact is the fact is a jiu jitsu only guy beats a wrestling only
guy in a fight nine times out of ten that’s the way it is that now if the
wrestler can learn very quickly but if the wrestler only knows wrestling and
the jiu-jitsu guy only knows jujitsu the jujitsu guy is going to win simply
because the wrestler doesn’t know how to finish the fight he doesn’t know how to
finish it he doesn’t have any submission holds to finish a fight so can they
occasionally nine times you know one time out of ten or whatever get
something and and yes that can happen but and and also I’m not talking about
if you take a NCAA wrestler and you put them against the white belt or
maybe even a blue belt there’s a chance that the blue belt can’t submit him the
guy’s just too strong that’s if he has some awareness if he
has no awareness whatsoever he’s gonna get tapped out yeah and if you watch the
early ufc’s that’s exactly what happened you know the wrestlers they might get
position but they were getting choked they were getting tapped and you go to
any gym right now you have a tough wrestler walk in that doesn’t know any
jiu-jitsu he’s gonna get tapped out I mean for instance right now at our gym
we got a really good wrestler named Taylor Johnson and I’ll bring his name
up because he eats I can remember it all cuz it’s all been recent he’s been
training now for less than a year when he first came in he was getting tapped
out you know that’s the way it is he’s a phenomenal wrestler two months later he
wasn’t getting tapped out six months later he’s tapping people out so that’s
what happens but if you take physically kind of close people and you put pure
wrestling against pure jiu-jitsu jiu-jitsu who’s gonna win now there’s
also another thing that you’re probably noticing in this situation and that is
that wrestling wrestling selects for athleticism right wrestling selects for
athleticism and for you to be competitive in wrestling you need to be
strong quick athletic agile all those things are important and I’ve seen that
you know with the the school where my kids wrestle and you see it what it’s
like when you get a strong athletic kid and how they’re able to execute moves
better than someone that’s not that good of an athlete and so wrestling does that
wrestling is selective so if you wrestled guess what you’re a really good
athlete you and if you did well wrestling or he wrestled for a long time
you developed that athleticism because you had to be explosive you had to train
hard so that’s that also blue belts you look at a blue belt a blue belt is
basically a person that’s been doing jiu-jitsu for a year maybe two years
right so that’s the same thing as a lower-level high school wrestler
right a low-level high school wrestler was a guy that didn’t start wrestling
until he was a freshman year started wrestling well that’s a low-level high
school wrestler and guess what he’s getting beat so you should be if you’re
a good wrestler you should be able to once you understand the basic principles
of jujitsu you should be able to beat blue belts because they’re a year into
the game that’s the way it is yeah you take a competitive wrestler and
you go against somebody that’s you know seven years in and now they’re a brown
belt well that’s that’s a competitive high school wrestler
that’s a senior and he started training in sixth grade that’s seven eight years
go against a seven or eight year jiu-jitsu guy you’ve got now you’ve got
a good match and likely legit to guys gonna win now again if you take know if
you take a pure wrestler versus of pure jiu-jitsu the juicy guys gonna win all
day all day so you know there’s no denying and like I just said there’s a
reason that wrestling is the the premier skill set in the UFC that predicts
champions no doubt about it it is a great and incredible martial art
I I wish that that wrestling had kept its roots as catch wrestling and still
had submission holds and all that because it would just completely change
the game but it doesn’t so you have to add them later there’s also something
else too where I think that I think that people in general wrestling’s not for
everybody mmm right it’s a very hard sport and I think that people avoid that
grind of as far as as far as the okay you’re gonna get good at wrestling now
how much it’s a guy now I’m gonna make you good at wrestling jujitsu guys have
void the grind I shouldn’t say all of them but some
often do do two guys avoid the grind of the takedowns and the intensity of
wrestling they’re not looking for that that’s one of the things that makes it
so appealing to a very broad range of people is that you can train it at a at
a mellower pace right and that’s also why if you go do jiu-jitsu tournaments
wrestler do really well in jiu-jitsu tournaments
because they understand the intensity of rounds of limited time of Smashing
someone of going all-out jiu-jitsu guy that’s been traded in the gym
name ready for that first tournament there’s no jiu-jitsu guy in the gym that
goes to the first tournament and says yeah that was just like what I thought
it was me like no they not used to that intensity they’re not ready for it so I
mean and of course not taking away from jiu-jitsu guys that train like Mad Men
with total intensity and get after it’s super hard to go as those guys exist as
well and also last little thing on this there
are also some wrestlers that don’t adapt to the slower pace of jiu-jitsu they
can’t adapt to that and they don’t adapt to the slower pace of MMA and so they
their whole career they gas out and there’s plenty of pro MMA fighters UFC
that have come in high-level wrestlers that they couldn’t ever quite make the
transition to MMA so you know bottom line these are these are points that I
pretty much agree with that the that this this guy made and wrestling’s
awesome I think it’s a great base I think it’s it’s a form of grappling and
it complements jiu-jitsu and Egypt jiu-jitsu complements it and I wish that
it was one sport yeah but it’s not so you have to do both yeah and it seems
like like two because he was originally not complaining wasn’t complaining but
his premise was that you know jiu-jitsu is is not in fact the hardest one to
master you know wrestling he’s implying that wrestling is harder to master you
know because he taught jiu-jitsu guys wrestling and they didn’t pick it up
right it was kind of in jujitsu you can break all kinds of wrestling rules in
jiu-jitsu yeah and but wrestling guys when they’ll come in if they they have
to learn to break some wrestling rules otherwise it’s gonna be their detriment
sure a lot of them a lot of them carry over a lot of
a lot of the strengthen but man if a wrestler can’t break the rule to to go
to his back there’s a lot of rest the wrestles will give up their back all day
there’s they don’t want to go on their back you know and that’s why they’re
gonna get choked all the time but if like Taylor you that’s a good example
Pro Hill fucked he broke that rule quick and that’s why he’s so good cuz he can
expand his mind and break that rule so but consider the jiu-jitsu guy right now
he has to learn all they see so he has to essentially and not so much break the
rule you can probably break some rules you know but not going back whatever but
you just think I doesn’t have to break any jiu-jitsu rules necessarily case in
point how much time and effort am I gonna put into learning a takedown
correctly when it barely decides the match exactly there’s a mental there’s a
mental gap into the desire for knowledge because if I if you take me down cool
I’m gonna get in you I’m gonna be you’re not gonna pass my guard whereas when a
wrestler shows up he has to learn this stuff otherwise he’s losing he’s getting
tapped out he’s getting choked yeah so that’s a great great point there yeah
very true so yeah you don’t have to you know and even when you say okay Jiu
Jitsu should focus more on takedowns and it’s really cool and you should
definitely focus on the takedown so you got to learn them and it’s very
important but at the back your mind as a jiu-jitsu guy I’m like just bull guard
yeah I don’t really care if you take me down it’s okay or and then now we’re
talking about in this case we’re come out saying that me personally because I
don’t like potentially but and here’s the thing to even add to that even if
you’re considering the comparison of wrestling and jiu-jitsu take the
takedown situation take not all takedowns are quote unquote wrestling
takedowns yeah I can be like okay I can not learn wrestling at all and still be
good at takedowns if I learn judo or fight you know if I learn something so
again so it goes it’s basically you’re taking something really vast with a lot
of easy ways to maneuver around certain techniques and still be vastly
successful and then you’re basically saying okay let’s take that
person who has that approach and narrow it down to this much more difficult
approach and way less effective approach essentially is the vastness of grappling
I can still be successful in grappling without learning XYZ wrestling moves and
then you want to teach them these XYZ wrestling moves probably some that can
go against you especially when it comes to energy energy conservation and all
this other stuff that’s why a guy maybe yeah who might be difficult to learn
that but how you said there’s a gap in the motivation there’s a difficult to
wanna learn or kick or care about learning this thing when it’s gonna
serve me less in my grappling no doubt you can just look at the human facts of
jiu-jitsu there’s a reason why takedowns are not emphasized very much energy to
at a normal academy in normal academy they do not have the focus on takedowns
like wrestling wrestling in wrestling the takedown wins you doesn’t win you
the match on record but that’s a huge part of wrestling is getting the
takedowns jiu-jitsu it’s it’s a little tiny percentage of the match give you
two points yeah but it doesn’t mean anything to me because I’m gonna submit
you yeah in just the nature of the game you know wrestling is takedown pin
there’s more to it I understand but jiu-jitsu is just submit the guy you
know soju gets it in in a way it’s like just just get it to the ground you can
hit off your back you can win them from the top you can wear a wrestling son
like that yeah I know people literally pull guard
and then win from there back on top zero in the match and so so the fact that you
can pull guard gives you this entire out to get away from doing takedowns and you
can still be victorious yeah very very often yeah and that goes along with
these even these techniques that he mentioned like you know you know see hit
basically that there’s there’s a lot of moves in there there big moves big moves
and they do help you but like I said that they’re just they’re simply not
necessary you know I mean any physical move is helpful to know and
to defend whether it be from offensive you know or defense position but again
if you’re trying to narrow it down and teach these guys who their approach and
their knowledge comes from the vastness of grappling yeah and you want to narrow
it down to this thing it may or may not work you know and it may or may not
serve you it could work against you but here let’s try to learn this real hard
yeah you can have that gap in motives you actually don’t care about the
takedowns yeah and I’m gonna go on record now as saying this just because
jujitsu doesn’t focus on takedowns doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t focus
you should learn takedowns you need to know takedowns from a self-defense
perspective from an MMA perspective takedowns wrestling you have to do it I
mean that’s why my kids wrestle you know it’s because I didn’t wrestle and I hate
that fact because I go against like he’s saying you know I go against a good high
school wrestler it’s hard for me to take him to the
ground you know you get somebody that wrestled in college I know what’s I know
I’m not good now I I have developed good takedown defense over the years and it’s
actually takedown offense because I have offensive ways of defending takedown you
know I’m gonna throw submissions but I can’t go back in time and go through the
the training that you get when you’re a high school wrestler and and college
wrestler I can’t do that I can’t do it I mean I just don’t have the time and the
motivation to do it because I’m in the same boat as as you know what the guy
that you’re just talking about how much time am I going to focus on takedowns I
know I go against a college wrestler he’s taking me down I go against a good
high school wrestler there’s a good chance he’s taking me down yeah so how
much time and effort I mean I could spend the next five years I could go
through a competitive circuit I could join the wrestling club but am I gonna
do that right now is that time effective or do I just want to get better at Jiu
Jitsu and then have access to the rest of the grappling spectrum that you just
talked about well it’s an obvious choice I’m gonna focus on the spectrum that has
the most the most application in every situation I’m gonna
be in yeah so if you if you get the chance wrestle wrestle as much as you
can learn your takedowns drill your takedowns put your kids into wrestling
jujitsu for sure put your kids into wrestling you know they don’t have to
worry about it then yeah the fact remains some people they don’t want that
beef you know where you gotta go and wrestle you’re a man that’s hard you
know and even like a wrestling you can have a wrestling style to your jujitsu
you know but again if you don’t want it you know who didn’t wrestle Craig Craig
Baker Aker ya didn’t wrestle ya you ready you’ll be like where did you
wrestle in college is what you thinking he’s pure Jiu Jitsu yeah didn’t wrestle
in college yeah didn’t wrestle in high school didn’t even wrestle in high
school he feels like a total wrestler when you’re with him and his takedowns
are great yeah and there’s some Brazilian guys that have come up that
you know Brazilian UFC fighters that are very good wrestles that never wrestled
before they have really good takedowns yeah and but you know you’re gonna even
have to worry if it work for that and these kids that come out of high school
yeah that wrestled in high school they got it yeah that work has an input yes
gift that they got yeah but for these guys and back to the question for these
guys that he’s trying to teach and he totally says like it could be my sample
size I understand yeah that’s a good point actually
but because the sample size be big you can get guys like Craig they’ll pick
that stuff up real quick but at the end of the day when it comes to as he put it
when it comes time to shoot penetrate with their hips or effectively use their
hips to defend or scramble you can omit all of those things from a jiu-jitsu guy
and he can still win and beats vasin successful you know so scramble mm
scrambles a questionable one yeah to be almost devil yeah but again I mean you
know we’ve moved you scrambling is a very good valuable thing to have in
jiu-jitsu yeah much more valuable than you know being able to penetrate on the
shop yeah yeah agree but yeah wrestlers right that’s a weird that’s such an
interesting bro I roll with this I feel bad that I forget his name but I roll
with him every time I see him and he swallowing me a given may be 165 maybe
and but an awesome wrestler new guy – under one year and his game is resting
but he’s like high-level rest and also if I play the wrestling game and I know
I know wrestling like I’m solid I can wrestle against good wrestlers maybe not
Taylor but good wrestlers so I can play and I’m bigger than him
you know so if I go and wrestle to wrestle this guy bro he liked it you run
game on you yeah I’ll run his game push but if I just slow down in my mind be ok
he’s a wrestler it’s just yeah let’s work around the wrestling ah no problem
yeah you know but once the once he if he can give up the wrestling rules you know
you know yeah but he because he has that athleticism he switches hips like all
quick base just like like he’s built into the ground that’s how good his base
is you know it’s a yeah wrestling yeah and I guess from a human nature
perspective here for you to apply this to other situations in life think about
when you’re trying to get people to do things
think about the motivation that they have in their head not not motivation of
like let’s go but not the actual the actual mental motivation of what they’re
gonna gain from what you’re trying to give them and do they see the reason of
why it’s important yeah you gotta play across the board jiu-jitsu the life
wrestling is life wrestling is grappling rappeling is like

100 thoughts on “Wrestling vs Jiu Jitsu – Jocko Willink”

  1. Did jujitsu for awhile and after 6 months of 6 days a week for 4-6 hours a day sometimes longer on the Saturdays. I felt that the toughest guy was this college level wrestler who trained in bjj occasionally. When I started, I couldn't beat him, by the time I was done it was a great match and occasionally I could get the tap. I personally feel that having no wrestling background was a huge disadvantage, but definitely could tell that given a little more time in bjj i would be consistently tapping him. Even he complemented me on the growth in my training. But I have no doubts at all, that had he been able to train in bjj as often as I was, with his feel for life on the ground, I would've never been a match for him. If I was starting over I would get all the wrestling I could until I was at least a blue belt in bjj simply for the raw development that wrestling seems to have. Just my opinion.

  2. There is a difference in respect for your trainings partners. Wrestlers go out to crush or be crushed in most training situations. Jujitsu guys respect their training partners as they know they can seriously damge their training partners if they go out and try to crush them everytime.

  3. Wrestling ends where bjj begins. Wrestling is a sport and bjj is a Martial art that's all you need to know about where to rank them. One person pins you another chokes you until you submit aka, if you didn't tap you die. Saying all that you need to learn to be effective in both.

  4. If you could submit people in wrestling, and therefore wrestlers knew submissions, it would be the undeniably dominant martial art.

    I say that because I think wrestling naturally produces more athletic athletes than jiu jitsu (that's not to say jiu jitsu doesn't produce high level athletes), because athleticism is more fundemental to the sport itself. That being said, I think jiu jitsu is way more of a chess match than wrestling.

  5. wrestlers aren't trying to win a fight they're trying to win a wrestling match, I see the jui jitsu vs wrestling videos and the wrestler pins the jui jitsu guy way before there's a submission.

  6. 9:30 Henry Cejuro, DC, Colby, Usman, and Khabib says "hi". It's just genetics, you either have the genes for cardio or you don't.

  7. All this talk by Jocko is assuming some kind of soft floor. In nearly every situation outside the takedown DOES decide the fight. So for basic defense on the street it is wrestling over BJJ all day everyday.

  8. My coaches always told me wrestling is just ancient jui jitsu or vice versa. I just feel that wrestling is such a polarizing thing here in the west that we as Americans did everything we could to learn it's nuances

  9. A wrestler who then learns how to use his hands is the ultimate threat in my opinion. They can't be taken down so you're forced to deal with his striking.

  10. I’m taking my third jiu jitsu class on Sunday so far it’s been so much fun. Thank you for motivating me daily jocko

  11. I describe it as:

    Wrestling: you force people into a pretzel.
    Jiujitsu: you allow the person to put themselves in a pretzel, and capitalize on the moment.

  12. Devils advocate here, 9 times out of ten seems a bit off if you're talking fights. I've done both started in wrestling, and I can imagine any pure bjj guy pulling guards and then getting his head smashed on the concrete etc, he may not need subs when its an actual fight like you're arguing. Pure submission match, yeah agree with you for the most part.

  13. Ju jitzu is the more deadly art but that is by design.
    Wrestling is by far the most difficult thing on the face of the earth. I have never done anything as difficult as wrestling. I train jiu jitzu now and it is great but nowhere near as tough and brutal as wrestling. In a fight between a pure jiu jitzu and a jiu jitzu guy with wrestling background, the wrestling background wins every time.

  14. I get what you’re saying about BJJ v. Wrestling but I think one nuance I don’t think you touched on was this: what rules are you going by to determine who wins in a sport scenario? If you go by mma then likely the bjj wins, if you go by standard wrestling rules the wrestler wins. Now out in the wide wild world I have no idea who would come out on top I would think it’s whoever is has more experience in from their respective martial arts

  15. Working on Hip/ITB strength right now because of this, helps put a little extra power in strike-snaps as well as ground strength. Tips: Work on treating a strike like an Olympic lift. Cardio rows/ heavy kettlebell cleans, heavy floor chest-press, punch w/o gloves for wrist strength. Palm strikes are way more powerful than fists.

  16. Wrestling and BJJ are very similar sports with different win conditions and thus their techniques are designed to facilitate achieving the win conditions. submissions though have more universal translation in more “real world” situations

  17. You forgot smart on the wrestling selects for list… I have yet to meet a high level wrestler who is not smart

  18. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu should be taught in Public schools. It will cut down on bullying, build discipline, confidence, and isn't just for kicks or meat heads. Not only would it give a kid who is bullied the ability to protect themselves… But also the bully to lose the ego and insecurities. If the bully is being abused at home, it can give them a way to protect themselves also.

    Jocko this really needs to happen.

    And not to mention, make us the most badass country when it comes to hand to hand combat.

  19. I need to get a bit of BJJ training, I have always just relied on 14 or 15 years of wrestling and 4 years of golden glove. But I always want to improve my ground skills as back up to my gun-fu!

  20. My first experience with wrestling was sitting against a wall with no support. I was maybe seven. I out lasted everyone else in our little community but I never fell in love with wrestling. I never experienced Jiu JItsu either except for the mental exercise and aspect. With that said, I own a gun and know how to use it properly. I have no desire to use that at all. The thing I love and understand about Jiu Jitsu is that avoid the fight. Nobody wins by dying or killing. Yes it is rewarding to put someone in their place but not to put them in their grave. That to me is a burden. I am an ass but not a beast of burden. So…

    Okay. this is it and Loki isn't kidding this time. I am not Loki by the
    way but yeah. My pic has a deeper message however as Loki was the Norse
    trickster. Kokopelli my pic came to be from history of southern native
    Americans. This history goes way back to Africa as well. Life is about
    connecting the dots to put it in it's simplest and purest form. All of these tales of old overlap from
    history of human beings. The boundaries have changed throughout time,
    the message is still the same. Being a human and loving God is Unity not
    division. If you read this then thank you! I am not a scholar just a
    former blue collar guy that never had the opportunity to go to
    university and became disillusioned by lies. Dichotomy.

    I do tend to buck the norm. Forgive me.

  21. My first experience with wrestling was sitting against a wall with no support. I was maybe seven. I out lasted everyone else in our little community but I never fell in love with wrestling. I never experienced Jiu JItsu either except for the mental exercise and aspect. With that said, I own a gun and know how to use it properly. I have no desire to use that at all. The thing I love and understand about Jiu Jitsu is that avoid the fight. Nobody wins by dying or killing. Yes it is rewarding to put someone in their place but not to put them in their grave. That to me is a burden. I am an ass but not a beast of burden. So…

    Okay. this is it and Loki isn't kidding this time. I am not Loki by the
    way but yeah. My pic has a deeper message however as Loki was the Norse
    trickster. Kokopelli my pic came to be from history of southern native
    Americans. This history goes way back to Africa as well. Life is about
    connecting the dots to put it in it's simplest and purest form. All of these tales of old overlap from
    history of human beings. The boundaries have changed throughout time,
    the message is still the same. Being a human and loving God is Unity not
    division. If you read this then thank you! I am not a scholar just a
    former blue collar guy that never had the opportunity to go to
    university and became disillusioned by lies. Dichotomy.

    I do tend to buck the norm. Forgive me.

  22. There is a big difference in the importance of Takedowns in Gi and No-Gi Jiu-Jitsu. Wish you would have talked about this

  23. Wrestling is better for self defense, it matches better the intensity of the street, and you don't want to be on the floor anyways.

  24. I agree jocko and i’m a wrestler.. I go to a bjj gym beat up on the white and blue belts and then have trouble with brown/black belts

  25. Jiujitsu really is the WRONG name for it.
    It should be known as Gracie-grappling.
    It is greasy and versatille and founded by the Scotish-Brazilian master Gracie.

    Jiujitsu on the other hand is an entirely different martial concept from Japan.
    Master Gracie was taught basic jiujitsu skills by a wandering Japanese jiujjitsu master, an immigrant to Brazil, as applicable to the ancient Japanese art of self-defence and combat.
    Master Gracie took those skills and developed an entirely different art:

  26. In my opinion, wrestling is good base or foundation to start building any martial art. Ju jitsu is beyond that, its building the house on the foundation and that comes easy for a lot of wrestlers because that's the next logical step in building. Where as learning wrestling, is like going back and trying to rebuild the foundation after the house has been built.

  27. Submissions only count if you're purely grappling, in a Pride style fight, the wrestler can easily pin someone and throw knees to the head, stomps, etc, it changes the dynamics up considerably.

  28. You’re not taking striking into consideration. A wrestler will take down a Jiu-Jitsu person to ground and will ground and pound. Striking will take some of the Jiu-Jitsu technique out of the window

  29. Went all state in high school and outside of that trained only one submission, rear-naked choke. I'm sure in jiu jitsu i'd get my butt kicked for a long while but every real life situation i've been in ended with me choking them out, something you don't learn in wrestling. Can't wait to get into a good JJ school.

    edit: my striking is shit, best suggestions for that? Kickboxing?

  30. My son just started wrestling in 8th grade this past fall. He's been training BJJ since he was 6. He picked it up like a fish to water and is wrestling at a Junior Varsity level now.

  31. In a couple months of wrestling I could beat kids that had wrestled for years. It means nothing. There are levels in any sport.

  32. A wrestler's training has already taught them how to navigate a grappling interaction, so a new wrestler coming in BJJ will obviously out perform a white belt with no prior experience and give blue belts a hard time. The high levels of wrestling like a division one wrestler may even give purple belts some trouble. Wrestler fall short due to the lack of submissions. The "time gap" between starting BJJ and becoming proficient in these submissions will be dependent on the individual. Everything else i.e. training, rolling, and conditioning is the same between the two sports.

  33. Another thing people should learn is the stand up game. Add Muai Thai to your resume, if shit goes south literally then your grappling skills kick in. Being on your feet is a must, so when shit gets too heated you can run to mommy 💪😎

  34. Great snippet! It could be nice if you had a compilation of all your martial arts/self defense related topics in one playlist. Your insight into violence-related topics is something I (and others) super appreciate.

  35. Skilled Strikers don't have the same advantages as a skilled grappler because if you have a lot of power, a strong chin and are really tough you can step in on a skilled striker take what ever they've got to give them what you've got and if you have more power you can still win.

  36. I am experienced in this order muay thai judo jj and then wrestling. Mainly I practice grappling these days. So. For 1. A takedown is important, its demoralizing and its a shock to the system. If you get hit with an osoto gari and you're rocked and on your back and then you'll get mounted or set up with an armbar. So the idea of "hey take me down I'll submit you" I agree but thats not always right. Now 2. Jiu jitsu American jj as we practice at my dojo. Jj is an umbrella term almost bc weve got wrestlers and judokas so the "Jits" is almost like a hybrid of all grappling. You gotta learn to sprawl and scramble and shit even no gi. Like jocko said the ferocity aint there initially but it gets developed. Anyway

  37. any blunt or sharp object, surprise, more than 1 person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. bjj, wresting, kung fu, krav maga.

  38. I was a wrestler for 6 years and reasonably good at it. The entire debate between these two forms of the best sport in the world seems pointless. If you achieve a certain amount of success, in either form of grapling, you are one of the most elete athletes in the world. You have a combination of strength, speed, agility, mental toughness that surpasses the very top competitors in other sports. You are the toughest of the tough, the baddest of the bad. Anybody willing to step on a mat where you know with complete certainty that the other guy is going to try ripping you limb from limb, and they've trained hard for years just to come whip your ass, right here, today, their only reason for even showing up is to take you down and stomp on your dream of reaching the top, my friend, anybody who is willing to face that down and fight back is a bad ass son of a gun. Hat's off to you, regardless of what form of grapling you choose.

  39. Jiu Jitsu players, generally, teach takedowns as a one-off. "Here's the technique of the day." And I've seen high level players teach it "wrong." But, if we're talking about a fight, Jiu Jitsu has a much wider application.

  40. I beg to differ.

    Striking, is the absolutely most difficult to "master", specifically, boxing.

    Of course, everything's all relative compared to what.

    But, in general, reaction time within split seconds and hand eye coordination at fast high volume is more difficult compared to grappling muscle memory.

    For example, an athlete will need more time to "master" playing baseball compared to football (except QB or receiver, which requires more hand eye and timing).

    You take a person have them drill a sprawl, hip toss and armbar for 6 months vs a left hook, chin tucked eyes open and giving an angle (foot work, rolling out).
    That person will absolutely be more proficient with better technique at the former in a live match/spar/practice.

    Grappling is mostly muscle memory, feeling. Striking is hand eye, reflexes.
    Grappling is more natural for a human body. Striking is very unnatural.

    Grappling is picked up faster and retained much longer.
    Striking needs earlier development and fades quickly when older.

    Another element in striking is doing it while under duress of receiving blunt force trauma to the head and body.

    Again, it's all relative and there are exceptions.

  41. Too be fair, most high school wrestling rooms have a certain amount of grind and external motivation, not to mention they do it every single day for a couple months. Its a bit harder on a casual adult schedule.

  42. As a die hard UFC fan the trend has shifted from an era of wrestlers domination to an era of striker domination (khabib being the exception). It is easier to defend takedowns than to hit takedowns, and a pure striker can get half decent takedown defense in a short period of time (Adensanya), while a pure wrestler has much steeper learning curve to stand with elite strikers.

    That said BJJ is KEY to know because purely one dimensional fighters will lose to pure BJJ guys 9/10 times as Jotko said and as Royce proved.

  43. I'm a newb so anybody feel free to correct me. I want to get a solid mma base. Fitness stuff aside and just focusing on martial art practices I'm thinking:

    Grappling: a mix of BJJ and Catch Wrestling. Wrestling fundamentals as a strong foundation for takedowns, defense against takedowns, aggressive intense nature, scrambling (muscling into positions of dominance without heavy technique always required), and "catch" adds in submission elements that optimize inflicting pain and "submission before position". BJJ is more efficient overall for being in control of your opponent and using skill and mechanical advantage to be able to handle a stronger and more powerful fighter. BJJ submissions are more technical and value "position over submission". BJJ overall seems more strategic like a chess match and wrestling overall seems more athletic in nature but obviously they both share the similar characteristics (I'm just saying what emphases certain characteristics more). I do not see it as an either or grappling style but two that can work synergistically BUT BJJ is more reliable if you're not the stronger fighter and you should always train for the worst. Plus it's harder to find real catch wrestling coaching or wrestling coaching in general when you're outside of high school, college etc but it's still possible. I'd keep a strong base of wrestling fundamentals mastering the basics but not mastering everything overall (can't "chase too many rabbits" at once) and make BJJ my staple in terms of optimizing it (and learn to mix both styles of submissions). Also in most fighting cases for me I would not want to destroy my opponent for legal and practical reasons but rather control them until the situation gets controlled (not an MMA match).

    Striking (offense/defense): Western Boxing. But your overall stance and footwork will be different for MMA to be ready to for grappling and takedowns (defense/offense).

    Throws: Judo

    Kicking: I don't know yet which art to prioritize but for me personally it would make more sense to focus on the other things above first. It's like how Jocko knows he "should" train his wrestling and takedown skills more but it's not worth the time investment for him to maximize his skills there. I can train my kicking skills but they'd still suck in a real fight compared to an expert in kickboxing, etc etc and I should train enough to be ready but not train kicking skills as my "bread and butter". In some cases it's a better return on time investment to optimize your strengths rather than your weaknesses. For most people who aren't quick powerful and efficient with kicks they only set themselves up to be taken down.

  44. He’s not proficient in BJJ….he’s a wrestler who’s learned to avoid certain positions. He’s still using his wrestling. And he has years of it. Obviously a dude with an excellent boxing can become serviceable at kickboxing much faster than someone with no training. The skill set crosses over.

  45. Love the podcast. Might be one of the best podcasts ever. But have to disagree. Growing up as a wrestler and no training in Jiu Jitsu, some people just have the drive to never give up and never quit. I would not let a Jiu Jitsu punk out do me in anything. Some people are just naturally better fighters and have higher stamina and will outlast their opponent. One good solid jab to the jaw and the fights over:

  46. I think the point Jocko made at the beginning about saying grappling vs Jiu Jitsu was the way to look at it was perfect and I would have stayed there. BJJ winning all day and not having to learn take downs just isn't true. Ask Cyborg Abreu about that. For background I have a BJJ background but got started way too late…my son started out under Francisco Mansur at 4 in BJJ and trained under many highly recognized BJJ coaches. He was beating bigger adult blue belts when he was 14 as a green belt, he picked up his blue belt from Daniel Wanderley from Duke Roufus' academy. But here is the thing…we got him into wrestling because he had a great guard as a kid and I told him eventually he'd lose by a take down at NAGA. He started wrestling in jr high and he is not a D1 wrestler at Campbell Univ. under Cary Kolat. Wrestling can beat BJJ even at a high level. The guy the beat Abreu basically took him down and stood up, not too fun to watch but you cannot submit what you cannot hold down. All that said I wish BJJ guys would just learn how to get guys to the mat and stop sitting down. As a martial art sitting on your ass is just silly in a real self defense situation. It is great for competition but martial arts were never meant to be a game. Judo ain't no joke either. I love all the grappling arts and as an old man, BJJ in the Gi is the only way to fly.

  47. From my perspective… (started wrestling in 2nd grade-Senior state level IL… 5 years of counter narcotics with the USCG.. 11 years of rugby 3 seasons a year 7-14 matches per season plus a whole sluth of other sports) its all a progression… i bounced in DT Minneapolis im nightclubs for about 3 1/2 years.. at a min of at least 6 altercations a weekend… i went that entire time without throwing one single punch… a few roman gut kicks to knock someone off their base when fighting multiple dudes.. but thats it.. i put many fired up dudes in the hospital.. even some "MMA" guys lol.. really doubt it.. who goes around bragging about that trying to pick fights lol.. anyways my reaction time was insane once i got to that point.. i took advantage of peoples center of gravity for the most part if they through a punch… thats a guaranteed mr asshole meets mr pavement… but my point in this rambling is that it is all a progression… it all feeds off each other…

  48. The issue I have with these comparisons is that they always default to jujitsu rules. I'm not a disciple of either but wrestling guy pins a jujitsu guy much faster than a jujitsu guy submits a wrestler (equal level of training and ability).

  49. Outside of politics, I love the life lessons that Jocko gives , outside of that one area in general I agree with a lot of what he says

  50. You dont need submissions to end a fight you only need top position and ground and pound.

    Wrestler beats most juijitsu guys in a fight 9 times out of 10 unless they are elite. Most bjj guys cant even submit wrestlers because they have great posture, control and positional dominance

  51. A jiu jujitsu guy couldn't take down a competent wrestler…..
    So he couldn't do his magical moves even if he wanted to.
    All a wrestler needs to do is learn 2- 3 different finishes and he wins everytime

  52. Jujutsu and wrestling have a lot of nuance, but none of them are as vast and hard to master as weapons based martial systems. Some HEMA systems like Fiore and Kenjutsu systems you won't even be able to master in your entire life, there's just too many weapons and techniques, she sheer amount of mastery is on a different level.

  53. You know the whole position before submission thing? I mean, that is wrestling in a lot of ways. It is all connected. I say, why choose one or the other if time and money allow? However, schools offer wrestling programs for free, and so if money is an issue, do what the guy who wrote into Jocko did and learn to wrestle(grapple for positional dominance) and then go learn BJJ when you have a chance. Either way, learning to grapple is super fun!

  54. I relate to this video so much! I've done BJJ for a semester, coming in with a wrestling background I was told I was burning hot. After two months though I tapped blue belts every once in a while.

  55. So I want to become a carpenter. But I can’t decide if I should buy a hammer or a tape measure. Which is more important? Like, if I had to choose one?

    This either/or nonsense is driving me bananas. One isn’t better than the other. Love wrestling. Love jiujitsu. Love judo. It’s all team grappling.

  56. I did wrestling in high school. I also had about 5 years of Japanese Karate and an Aikido like method called Bunjinkan Budo.
    The couple of times in my adult life when I was forced to defend myself, it was the wrestling that saved me.
    We didn't know about Jujitsu back then

  57. The wrestler doesn't know how to finish the fights??? Does jocko not know that slams and ground and pound are used in street fights???PROFF : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlLI779Aw0

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